Five Questions with Bob Lupton, Author of Toxic Charity
While Bob was in town for our Regional Forums, he was kind enough to answer a series of questions for us! Enjoy.
Q: You just spent a whole week being driven all over Indiana. You were also here just a few weeks ago. What do you see happening here in the Hoosier state?
Well, I don’t really have a proactive strategy for these speaking engagements, but having been around the state, I’ve been able to sample a lot of what’s going on, and you know, the mere fact that you have a Community Foundation in every county, that’s very significant. And it means you’ve got a populous that are engaged, like other states’ counties don’t necessarily have. I’ve experienced a lot of positive energy at the community level. And I don’t think that’s going on anywhere near to that extent in other states. That structure, and the funding encouraging that structure, is making a big difference. In terms of actual paradigm shifting, it feels like there is more discussion at this point than action. This is understandable because changing a paradigm - well, any change is difficult. As radical as this perspective shift is makes it increasingly difficult. How long it will take to really get momentum in Indiana is another question, and I’ll be very curious to see how it does work out.
Q: The Indiana Philanthropy Alliance works primarily with grantmaking organizations. What advice would you have for grantmakers in terms of implementing nontoxic practices?
I’ll tell you, I have a list of questions I’ve been working on for funders - I think that as a funder, you’re in a very strategic spot to influence change. And for you to offer a suggested format for request for proposals, to structure that in a way that - well, let’s put it this way: if you declare, “Here’s what we’re going to be funding over the foreseeable future. We’re going to be funding those programs that are doing both individual community development and empowerment” - you’re not saying anything negative about those doing emergency relief, you’re just saying where the funds are going to be going...and to give suggestions or ideas of what that might look like - if that penetrated your network, I think that could have a powerful impact. It’s not like saying, “we’re not going to fund you folks any more,” but it is saying, “here’s what we do intend to fund into the future.” And it gives the nonprofit an opportunity to restructure their proposal, which obviously means their programs as well. It can include such things as looking for outcomes as opposed to activities for a measure of effectiveness, and by outcomes we’re talking about: are your clients becoming more self-sufficient? How do you define self-sufficiency? Those are developmental questions. So I think that would be a very proactive way of drawing folks in to developmental activities.
Q: Many of our Indiana communities are rural. It can be hard to stretch the imagination to see how we could create similar practices to what you did in urban Atlanta. Could you reflect a bit on the different challenges of implementing nontoxic practices in rural vs. urban environments?
In the urban setting you can really talk about mixed income community development. You can harness gentrification for affordable housing and some pretty healthy community development opportunities. It’s like what’s happening here in the Meadows - Purpose-Built Communities is the name of the group. We formed that out of a successful model in Atlanta, the East Lake model. But it doesn’t work so well in small-town rural areas. So I don’t know what I would say about community development. But in terms of principles of personal development, I think those same principles do apply. The structuring of programs that encourage reciprocal involvement and ways that our recipients can be engaged in the process - so shifting away from toxicity where we’re doing things for people that they can actually do for themselves, to creating the systems of exchange that bring us into relationships together. And I think that applies in any setting. It may be difficult if you’re talking about individual empowerment where your involvement leads to good employment - that may be challenging in rural areas where there isn’t as much employment, but I think the principles probably apply across the board.
Q: Several people asked about the ways in which government programs can be toxic. I thought your answer was compelling - and I loved it because it didn’t let those of us on either end of the political spectrum squirm out of our own responsibility and blame the situation on someone “out there.” Could you repeat it for us here?
Certainly the government has produced a lot of programs that are toxic, and once an entitlement is in place it’s very difficult to retract or downsize it, and that’s true across the board, from corporations to individuals to rich and poor. I personally think that when 1 in 7 Americans is on food stamps in the wealthiest country in the world, that there’s something wrong with the formula. But there’s incredible pressure on politicians to leave those entitlements intact once approved. So I think the only way that these programs change - and the only way politicians are willing to take the risk to reduce some of the entitlements - is when there is a groundswell of public opinion - so much so that it won’t threaten their electability. That’s the litmus test...will it threaten my electability? And I don’t think that will happen until there is a significant groundswell - which I could foresee. I could see this state, I could see participants in these discussions going back to their local board of directors, and some corporations, some nonprofits making that change - it makes me think of one of the guys this morning, he’s the Executive Director of a unity mission shelter. This 140-year-old association of rescue missions has never charged anything for a bed or a meal, but just in the last 2 or 3 years that has started to change. They’ve recognized there’s toxicity in this, and that everyone has something to contribute. Setting up a system that allows recipients of that good work also to participate in support of that program is a healthy thing. And this guy was talking about ways they’d detoxed lately. So that can happen. How long it will take for significant traction to really change the paradigm, I don’t know. We haven’t lived through this history yet.
Q: What was your favorite thing about your time in Indiana?
The most enjoyable thing is the interaction with frontline folks, folks that are actually wrestling with these issues in practical way. These are practitioners, and to me it’s very enjoyable to have vigorous interactions with frontline professionals. And you’ve got a lot of them here in Indiana.
Bob Lupton is the founder of FCS Ministries, an Atlanta-based community development nonprofit. He holds a PhD from the University of Georgia and is a sought-after speaker and educator. He is the author of several books, including Toxic Charity: How Churches and Charities Hurt Those They Help (And How To Reverse It). The Indiana Philanthropy Alliance was delighted to welcome Bob as the keynote speaker for our 2015 Regional Forums.